Interview Amongst Dr. Sarah Ellis On The Trainable Cat

An interview with Dr. Sarah Ellis almost teaching cats the cardinal skills they demand to alive inwards fellowship with us.

By Zazie Todd, PhD

This week, I was thrilled to speak with Dr. Sarah Ellis almost her novel majority with John Bradshaw, The Trainable Cat. The Trainable Cat: Influenza A virus subtype H5N1 Practical Guide to Making Life Happier for You too Your Cat is published past times Basic Books too is a New York Times bestseller. Every cat possessor needs to read this book.

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Zazie: How did you lot acquire into preparation cats?

Sarah: I started preparation cats unbeknown to myself when I was a child. I grew upwardly with cats from the 24-hour interval I was born, but I got my first-born truthful cat when I was vii too he was a Burmese, really very intelligent. I lived inwards the rural countryside inwards Scotland with no siblings too non much to do so I spent a lot of fourth dimension with him. He was really nutrient motivated too really very social. And so I – non on purpose, but I inadvertently trained him to locomote over lilliputian obstacles of slice of furniture inwards the living room, walk on my shoulder, too he used to locomote over lilliputian trails of jumps inwards the garden next a lure toy, you lot know similar a angling rod toy. And these were things that I would demo to my parents too demo to my friends, too that was that. I never at that phase fifty-fifty truly thought almost the fact that I was preparation him on purpose.

Then I didn’t acquire my ain truthful cat equally an adult until I was inwards my mid-20s when I was doing my PhD inwards feline behaviour. So that outset truthful cat had an plainly quite large deport upon on me. During that fourth dimension that I was doing my PhD I was collecting information inwards a rescue grouping organization. So I was seeing lots too lots of cats every unmarried 24-hour interval too seeing lots of the problems that they human face upwardly – going to the vet, how they couldn’t cope, couldn’t fifty-fifty care inwards the truthful cat carrier, couldn’t care inwards the cages inwards the rescue centre. And I thought it doesn’t demand to live similar this at all, it’s non similar this for my cat, so why is my truthful cat dissimilar from all these other cats? But fifty-fifty so I didn’t truly realize that I was truly preparation him. It was something I just did, I nevertheless didn’t think almost it.

And so when I finished my PhD I moved to the University of Lincoln too I was doing interrogation into feline welfare. But a lot of my colleagues were working with dogs, too they were preparation dogs on a daily basis, running puppy classes, too I went along to assist help with the puppy classes. It was solely truly correct so that I thought, “Aaah, I totally know what I’m doing with my cat. And why have got nosotros never ever formalized this, too why do nosotros think that this is just something for dogs too non something for cats?” 

And yeah nosotros mightiness desire to do it for cats for dissimilar reasons than nosotros desire to prepare dogs, but it was so I started to set terminology to what I was doing too formalize the procedure I was doing too truly convey my witting thought into it. “This is just what I’m doing, I’m truly preparation them without fifty-fifty realizing.” You know, whether it’s how I modify my trunk language, when I give the nutrient reward, whatever the nutrient payoff is, I’m preparation them. So so I started at that indicate to actively prepare cats. Then I started to utter almost it quite a flake too so I think it was 2010  - I went to the University of Lincoln inwards 2007 too it was 2010 I was asked to give my outset utter at a conference on preparation cats. And so inwards 2012 I was asked to write a year-long serial on preparation cats for a United Kingdom of Great Britain too Northern Ireland Cat magazine. And that was it!

Zazie: When people think almost training, usually they’re thinking almost things similar sit down too stay, obedience too things similar that. But that’s non truly quite what your majority is almost is it?

Sarah: No, non all. I mean, the majority is called The Trainable Cat but for me it’s truly almost preparation for amend welfare, to improve the wellbeing of the cat. Insofar equally teaching the truthful cat the cardinal skills that they demand to alive inwards fellowship with us. And without those skills they often struggle. They’re skills that are completely inside the achieve of a cat, you lot know. We’re non shout out for for things that truly destroy the essence of what a truthful cat is. I think in that location are many of those demands placed on cats, I do think many people inquire cats to live things that cats are not. But the preparation hither is almost teaching cats to perceive the public that nosotros have got them inwards too the things nosotros have got to do to them. Not things nosotros just desire to do to them, but things nosotros have got to do because it has a welfare payoff to them, but the truthful cat doesn’t necessarily know that at that time, to live able to care with those things inwards a amend way.

Going inwards the truthful cat carrier is a definite because every truthful cat that is owned inside a responsible owner’s dwelling household if you lot like, or wherever that is, a shelter, volition cease upwardly inwards a truthful cat carrier at some indicate inwards its life because they volition give it veterinarian care.  Likewise veterinarian care, preventative wellness care, visitors – there’s no way nosotros tin continue pet cats inside our dwelling household without them having to encounter people they don’t know. These types of things for me are absolute life skills. The sits too the stays too the hi-fives are things that tin live done to heighten your human relationship with your cat, because preparation is rewarding inwards its ain right. But it’s beyond that, it’s truly almost thinking almost what you lot desire to prepare too how that mightiness improve the cat’s life.

Zazie: So for people who are completely novel to the thought of preparation a cat, tin you lot state something almost the best rewards to use?

Sarah: If people are completely novel to preparation cats but have got trained dogs before, they almost demand to have got that chapeau off too start from scratch. Because dogs are so – equally you lot good know – are really very socially orientated towards us too are really very perceptive at reading cues that nosotros give, whether it’s pointing at something or the facial expressions that nosotros make. Cats are non so practiced at those sort of things, so hence nosotros demand to think almost the fact that the truthful cat is non necessarily ever focussed on us. They don’t start from that standing point. You know if you lot stood inwards forepart of a domestic dog too they form of expect at you lot too state “what do you lot desire me to do?” If you lot stood inwards forepart of a truthful cat they’d state “why on globe are you lot looking at me?!” so plow circular too walk off. There isn’t that demand to please, so nosotros have got to think almost what truly is rewarding for a cat, because it’s for sure non our social attention, for most cats. And when nosotros outset start preparation a truthful cat that’s non been trained before, the most rewarding thing to a greater extent than often than non for cats is food.

They are obligate carnivores, so that nutrient to a greater extent than often than non has to live meat, too past times meat I hateful meat too fish – creature flesh. And they are lonely hunters, they are derived from lonely hunters so they volition hunt modest too often, modest meals frequently. So truly they are truly good suited to preparation because that’s how nosotros deliver the food. But because they do swallow frequently, modest amounts oft throughout the 24-hour interval naturally, nutrient over again is a truly practiced payoff because it’s non similar they  just have got i large repast a 24-hour interval too that’s it. So nutrient industrial plant well, feeding modest too often truly industrial plant well.

The thing I truly would similar to indicate out is many people think almost the size of the nutrient payoff that they give, too it is so often far equally good big. Because nosotros sort of think inwards domestic dog damage or fifty-fifty inwards human damage too fifty-fifty the size that commercial truthful cat treats come upwardly inwards are far equally good large to live a unmarried preparation treat. So I really often recommend that if you lot are using commercial truthful cat treats, usage the freeze dried ones or the semi-moist ones, because you lot tin delineate them into much much smaller parts. If we’re thinking almost a prawn, non a Rex prawn just an average normal prawn, I would interruption that mayhap into 4 or v parts at least.

Zazie: You alluded a flake to differences betwixt preparation cats too dogs. Something else you lot shout out inwards your majority is that sometimes cats acquire quite excited almost beingness trained. What tin nosotros do if the truthful cat gets excited past times the preparation session?

Sarah: I think i of the large problems is that many owners don’t recognize the behavioural signs when their cats are getting equally good excited too so it’s equally good late. Often a truthful cat that gets equally good excited tin acquire quite lightheaded with its claws, because they tin swipe, or they tin latch onto you, they tin catch you lot with all their claws. But in that location are many tell-tale signs earlier that happens such equally dilation of the eyes, often nosotros reckon flattening of the ears or wrinkling of the skin, too the tail mightiness start to swish or thrash, or their movements mightiness acquire a flake to a greater extent than jaggy or stuttered, a flake to a greater extent than staccato. It’s teaching owners to recognize these signs so that they halt preparation at that indicate earlier it eludes to an over-excited incident such equally the truthful cat swiping.

And it truly depends on the private truthful cat too how skilled the trainer is, so inwards some cases, for illustration my truthful cat Cosmos, he tin acquire really excited around food. It’s component division of his history because he was, prior to coming to me equally a rescue kitten he was starved, too i of his siblings truly when they arrived at the veterinarian exercise had died of starvation. So he was truly quite seriously starved. So he gets – or did, I should state – acquire extremely excited around food, but preparation has definitely helped us to care with that. And at i time if I reckon the signs that he’s getting equally good excited, rather than halt preparation completely I tin lower the value of the payoff that I’m using. So let’s state I was using fresh meat for him, cooked chicken or a slice of prawn or whatever it is, I could drib it downwardly to my adjacent payoff beingness just a slice of his normal kibble, parts of dried commercial food.

You tin lower the value of the food, or you lot tin halt completely, or you lot tin displace onto a dissimilar preparation labor that is less exciting. I definitely wouldn’t usage the payoff of play too toys inwards situations where cats are getting truly excited.

Zazie: In the majority you lot have got this thought of a preparation toolbox too it’s a metaphor but it’s also literal. What’s inwards your preparation toolbox?

Sarah: The preparation toolbox volition live slightly dissimilar for each private truthful cat because it is tailor-made to each cat’s likes too dislikes, too depending on which tasks you lot are probable to train. Your rewards volition live inwards there, so the diverse types of toys you lot mightiness usage equally rewards, the diverse types of nutrient you lot mightiness usage equally rewards, too the diverse types of ways you lot mightiness deliver those foods.

So for example, inwards my preparation toolbox I have got a tin, so I continue some of my dried foods inwards a tin. I have got a issue of empty syringes, non syringes with needles on, just the plastic syringe because I would often brand a paste, a polish pureed glue of truthful cat meat, that gives me a constant origin of nutrient to deliver piece of cake when pressed through a syringe. I also have got a weaning spoon which is used for children, it’s similar a squeezy subway scheme with a spoon on the end, too if I squash the nutrient it squeezes it direct into the spoon. I also have got a target stick inwards my preparation toolbox, too I usage that to instruct my cats how to follow a target. It’s a stick with a large ping pong ball on the end. Sometimes I’ll usage that type of preparation if I desire to displace a truthful cat from i identify to another, too it’s non offering whatever of that demeanour spontaneously. So for illustration you lot could usage a target stick to displace a truthful cat through a truthful cat flap or to displace it downwardly off a worktop or fifty-fifty to continue it nevertheless inwards a standing seat if you lot are wanting to do some handling.

They’re the primary things. Some people usage clickers similar a marker. We talked almost a marking discussion inwards the majority but some people mightiness usage a marking of a clicker instead, so continue a clicker inwards there. And I have got a grooming brush inwards my toolbox because Cosmos finds access to a grooming brush truly rewarding.

Zazie: If somebody is going to start preparation their cat, where would you lot propose that they start? Should they piece of work their way through the chapters inwards order, or what do you lot think is the best identify to start for most cats?

Sarah: I think it’s a truly practiced thought to read the introductory chapters because they truly tell you, what is a cat, too give you lot a total agreement of your truthful cat earlier you lot fifty-fifty think almost training. Then I would definitely read the cardinal skills chapters, too have got a play with the dissimilar activities inside those cardinal skills, so you’re mastering the skills on behaviours that are non truly that of import to you. So if you lot don’t acquire your timing quite right, or the payoff you lot used was non high plenty value, or depression plenty value, it doesn’t truly affair because you’ve non ruined a demeanour that it’s of import for you lot to teach, because they’re just exercise activities.

Then it’s really very subject on your ain private circumstances too what things are almost to hap inwards your cat’s life. If you lot have got a truthful cat that is non practiced with visitors for example, that would live something I would piece of work on straight away. If you lot have got a truthful cat that you lot know hates the vet, too his booster vaccination is inwards 5 months, now’s a vivid fourth dimension to start working on that. Don’t acquire out it until a few weeks before, give yourself plenty of time. Cat carrier over again is i for everybody, preventative healthcare for everybody, but introducing a baby, introducing a dog, that’s really subject on your ain circumstances.

Zazie: Thank you. One of the other things I wanted to inquire you lot almost is i of the cardinal skills you lot describe, which is collecting the cat’s scent. So for people who are used to preparation dogs, they won’t truly know what that’s all about. How tin nosotros usage scent when we’re preparation a cat?

Sarah: So cats similar dogs do navigate the public really much through their sense of smell, their sense of olfaction. But they also usage chemicals known equally pheromones. Each pheromone is specific to i species. And these are deposited from their facial glands, predominantly; from other areas equally good but the ones we’re thinking almost are the ones from their facial glands. For people that don’t know cats so well, when you lot expect at a cat’s human face upwardly too you lot tin reckon those balding patches inwards forepart of their ears, betwixt their eyes too their ears, that’s a large expanse of scent glands. Behind the whiskers too nether the mentum too just at the corners of the lips equally well. They’re areas that arrive at a lot of these pheromones, too the chemicals have got a specific function.

Photo: plastique (Shutterstock.com)

And nosotros believe – in that location has been some interrogation done  although nosotros do demand a lot lot to a greater extent than – but nosotros believe that cats facial rub on objects, protruding objects similar the corners of walls or protruding parts of furniture, because they are depositing these pheromones. We know that they do reinvestigate areas that they have got rubbed, so it’s non just a chemic message that they set downwardly for others, nosotros know that they volition continue going dorsum too investigating those areas too re-rubbing them, putting downwardly to a greater extent than pheromones. It’s hard to know the exact component division but nosotros believe it’s something to do with enhancing their perceived security inside an area, too their perceived familiarity inside an area. Certainly nosotros have got observed cats performing this demeanour at the periphery of their territory.

And so if that’s the case, too if it way that the truthful cat feels to a greater extent than secure too to a greater extent than familiar when something is impregnated with these pheromones, too when they do that it won’t just live the pheromones that locomote downwardly it volition live their scent that’s related to their identity equally well. We know that cats tin discriminate based on urine output, based on faecal output, too truly we’re just starting to expect at interrogation to propose whether they tin on scent from the trunk equally good equally from the facial gland region. So what we’re doing is we’re basically collecting those pheromones too all the scent of that truthful cat too so placing that onto something that is novel or novel. By doing that it’s similar the truthful cat pre-facial rubbed that object, too hence it is less daunting to the cat. It should live perceived equally slightly to a greater extent than familiar. Influenza A virus subtype H5N1 lilliputian flake like, I state to people when nosotros have got a kid out of their comfort zone of their home, they’ll often have got a comfort blanket with them or their favourite teddy. They’re taking something that is prophylactic too secure too familiar, too so when they agree it or when they odour it, or whatever they do with it, it brings them feelings of comfort too safety.

Zazie: That’s a swell analogy.

Sarah: That’s why nosotros collect the scent too nosotros do it only past times rubbing those facial gland areas too so rubbing whatever it is nosotros desire to impregnate with that scent. You tin also do it, if you lot were taking a truthful cat to a novel location, you lot tin just usage the bedding that that truthful cat unremarkably uses.

Zazie: Thank you. So throughout the majority it’s all almost using rewards to prepare cats, but unfortunately some people sometimes usage penalty similar spraying water. Why is it so of import non to usage penalty with a cat?

Sarah:  There’s a few reasons. The outset thing to state is that it’s non that penalty isn’t effective. I think to acquire people on side they have got to empathise that penalty will, past times the really nature it’s called punishing a behaviour, it volition halt a behaviour. But if that penalty is seen to live coming from you, you lot are also so perceived equally punishing, hence you lot are non perceived inwards a positive light. And hence it tin truly impairment the human relationship that you lot have got with that truthful cat because for a punisher to truly piece of work it has to live truly aversive. To halt that demeanour it has to live stronger than the motivation to perform the behaviour. Therefore if it’s that aversive, too the truthful cat associates you lot equally beingness that aversive, you’re going to truly impairment your human relationship with that cat. Now, you’re inwards your cat’s life all the time, you lot feed the cat, you lot do other positive things with the cat, so you’re all of a precipitous giving this truthful cat really very ambiguous signals that ‘sometimes I’m nice, too sometimes I’m not.’ That tin set the truthful cat into a province of anxiety too inwards extreme cases the truthful cat could fifty-fifty get to fright you. So you lot truly tin so get to create a province of affairs where the truthful cat hasn’t just stopped performing the demeanour you lot wanted it to halt performing, it’s at i time actively avoiding you lot or actively fearful of you.

Zazie: Towards the cease of the majority you lot have got a lovely department almost things to do with your truthful cat too which mightiness halt your truthful cat from getting bored, similar truthful cat agility too a sensory box. Can you lot just state a lilliputian flake to a greater extent than almost that too why it’s so important?

Sarah: It’s truly of import because if nosotros expect dorsum to the creature that the truthful cat has descended from, nosotros reckon an private that spends a huge component division of its 24-hour interval exploring its territory, investigating the surroundings too hunting too working for its food. Now although nosotros have got domesticated the cat, too although inwards many cases through pedigree breeding nosotros have got changed how it physically looks, rightly or wrongly, nosotros haven’t actively selected for specific behavioural traits inwards the cat. So nosotros haven’t bred out of them the demand to live territorial, nosotros haven’t bred out of them the demand to hunt. These instincts nevertheless be inwards the truthful cat too hence they nevertheless have got a motivation to actively explore their surroundings too to live searching for nutrient too finding food. When opportunities for these behaviours are non freely available, nosotros tin set the truthful cat at direct chances of piteous welfare because they tin live motivated to do something that there’s non an chance to do. And this is especially so for the cats that don’t have got outdoor access too that are indoors-only.

By using training, nosotros tin fix situations where nosotros render an choice outlet for those behaviours the truthful cat nevertheless instinctively wants to perform. So through preparation the fact that they are truly working for their food, they are having to occupation solve, they are learning that their demeanour has consequences, too it is much of what happens when a truthful cat is hunting. If a truthful cat makes the incorrect displace inwards hunting, too it lets the prey escape, in that location are no rewards. The termination is that the prey has gone too the truthful cat volition non perform that demeanour again. It’s having to constantly think too readjust its behaviour. And that’s just what nosotros render through training. And with nutrient in that location is the same powerfulness for consumption.

Photo: Belozerova Daria; top, Xseon; both Shutterstock

By using things similar agility nosotros tin add together inwards that chemical cistron of exploring the physical environment. So often owners don’t desire their cats to climb on the furniture, on whatever shelf or mantel slice where nosotros set upwardly knick-knacks, pictures frames, whatever it is that nosotros don’t desire the cats to locomote upwardly in that location because we’re worried almost them knocking those things off. But if nosotros utter to owners almost doing agility with their cats inwards their home, so they start to think almost their dwelling household inwards a dissimilar way. They start to imagine how their dwelling household could live utilized to a greater extent than past times their cat. So I think it gives them that lilliputian modify of perception too gives the truthful cat that chance for that physical activity.

The sensory box over again is a lilliputian flake similar bringing the outdoors in. It’s truly of import for indoor-only cats. Cats are used to their surroundings – although they similar to continue their inner circle, their amount territory, familiar to them past times constantly scent marking on it, they are used to lots too lots of modify inwards their environment. Because naturally their surroundings would live outdoors. One of the reasons that they patrol is that they’re checking to reckon what changes have got happened. The indoor surroundings tin live incredibly stagnant too in that location isn’t this sort of sensory change. And nosotros so are providing some of that stimulation past times bringing some of the outdoors into the home.

Zazie: Fantastic. So if somebody reads the majority too they’re truly keen to larn to a greater extent than almost cats, presumably you lot would refer them to International Cat Care. What kinds of resources tin people disclose there?

Sarah: Yeah definitely. International Cat Care has a vast amount of costless resources on our website, inside our advice section, on all areas of behaviour, including clinical demeanour if people are experiencing occupation behaviours with their cat. We also on our youtube channel have got a issue of how-to videos including some videos for training. There are 3 videos on how to prepare your truthful cat to locomote inwards a truthful cat carrier, i video on how to prepare your truthful cat to do a recall, too nosotros volition live producing over fourth dimension to a greater extent than preparation videos. For those that have got truly got hooked on demeanour too preparation at i time too desire to do a lot to a greater extent than too empathise cats a lot more, nosotros are producing ii novel distance teaching online courses on feline behaviour. One of the courses is for vets, vet nurses too vet technicians, too the other course of report is for truthful cat owners, too pet professionals working outwith the veterinarian profession, inwards rehoming too welfare organizations, breeders, cat-sitters, all those types of jobs.  Both of those courses have got a total module on preparation so nosotros volition live roofing it inwards swell depth too having the chance for a lot to a greater extent than support, too getting the chance to acquire feedback on your ain private preparation skills. Our outset course of report runs inwards mid-November but the registration is opened upwardly until the cease of October. And so we’ll run over again inwards May adjacent year.

We’ve got people registered at the 2nd from xiv dissimilar countries. It’s truly great, because nosotros truly really desire to encourage peer back upwardly across the public too continue disseminating information alongside each other. Once the courses are finished nosotros promise to fix an alumni grouping so people tin continue supporting each other inwards all the dissimilar ways they work.

Zazie: Brilliant. Thank you lot so much for taking the fourth dimension to utter with me! I think your majority is wonderful too it’s going to brand a huge huge divergence to so many cats. 

Dr. Sarah Ellis is Feline Behaviour Expert at International Cat Care. You tin follow her on twitter too facebook, too disclose more information almost the feline demeanour courses. 

The Trainable Cat: Influenza A virus subtype H5N1 Practical Guide to Making Life Happier for You too Your Cat past times John Bradshaw too Sarah Ellis is published past times Basic Books.


Zazie Todd, PhD, is the writer of Wag: The Science of Making Your Dog Happy. She is the founder of the pop spider web log , where she writes almost everything from preparation methods to the human-canine relationship. She also writes a column for Psychology Today too has received the prestigious Captain Haggerty Award for Best Training Article inwards 2017. Todd lives inwards Maple Ridge, BC, with her husband, i dog, too ii cats.

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